Biography of Payam
It is difficult being openly homosexual in most heterosexual societies; but especially difficult within certain cultures since the consequences of being found out can be fatal. In Iran, “the punishment for gay men is public hanging, for lesbians, public whipping” (para. 3). In the morning of July 19, 2006, in the city of Tehran, Iran, two gay teenagers were publicly hanged (Iranian Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Organization, 2006).
Homosexuals who end up leaving the oppressive conditions of their native country and migrate to the United States enjoy a greater degree of freedom. Compared to where they came from, gay immigrants have more privileges in the West. However, according to Morris (1997), “Coming out and being out may have different meanings in the lives of [people] of color than they do in the lives of white [individuals]” (p.17). She elaborates that the coming out process in the United States for people of color may be more complex than for white individuals. For a person of color, they may have to choose between a hierarchy of racial and sexual identities. For example, in a predominantly white working environment a person of color might choose not to disclose their sexual orientation because being a person of color already marginalizes them. Where as, a white individual in that same environment does not have to grapple with the same pressures in disclosing their orientation.
Studies with lesbians show a difference in the coming out process between white and black women. The National Lesbian Health Care Survey found that white women were out to a larger percentage of people in general than women of color, while African American women were out to a larger percentage of family members, on average, than were white or Latina women (Bradford, Ryan, & Rothblum, 1994).
The purpose of this essay was for me to have a better understanding of the personal experiences of a gay Iranian individual living in the United States who had migrated from Iran when he was fifteen years old. Through an interview process, I was able to have a better understanding of some of the difficulties Payam faces here in the United States, with his family and the Iranian as well as the white American community. Up to the time I talked to Payam, as an Iranian American heterosexual woman, I had never come across an Iranian homosexual. However, I have always imagined the immense difficulties Iranian homosexuals face within such an intolerant society. Growing up within this small community I had often heard people openly disparage and insult gays. I have never experienced any family be open about having a gay member. One reason could be due to the fear of being collectively ostracized from the community. It is likely that families may in fact ostracize their own child for being gay in order to keep face.
I had the great pleasure of talking and interviewing Payam on the phone. At first he was hesitant about sharing himself but as I proceeded with the interview I felt he relaxed and became more comfortable. I was impressed at how well rounded and integrated his life is and how he has been able to live comfortably as a gay Iranian man despite the tremendous difficulties he has experienced. My interview with Payam is separated into three sections. In the first section Payam mainly answers questions about himself, the second section he talks about his family and the third section he talks about both the Iranian and the American community. Below is the interview with Payam.
The self:
- What is your full name?
- How old are you?
- 31
- Where do you live?
- What is your professional background?
- What is your educational background?
- What is your religious background?
- Where were you born?
- Where did you grow up?
- When did you come to the United States?
- How do you identify your socioeconomic background?
- How do you identify yourself today?
- When did you first discover that you are gay?
- How did you feel when you realized you are gay and different from other boys/ men?
- When did you first come out to your family, friends, co-workers?
- What was it like to come out with your parents?
- Are you in a relationship now?
- Where is he from?
- Have you ever been with a woman?
- Does your family know about your relationships with other men or do you keep them to yourself?
- What is your explanation for being gay? Genes or environment? Is it a choice?
- Did you ever experience internalized homophobia?
- How do you feel about your sexual orientation today compared to when you first came out?
- What helps you or gives you strength to be open about your sexual orientation?
- What do you think your life would have been like if you were still living in Iran?
Payam M.
Pasadena
Management
B. A. in Computer Science.
Personally I don’t practice any religion. But my mother is Moslem and my father is Jewish.
Tehran
Tehran, San Diego, and then L.A. I also lived in Germany for 1 Yr. and in Spain for one year. I was studying in Spain.
1988, I was 15 at the time.
In Iran my dad worked for himself and mom worked for an organization, same as here. My Dad has his BA and my mom has her AA. I have one sister she is younger, and she is a doctor.
Iranian American, gay man.
Probably when I was 18. I didn’t know the word gay but I was attracted to men since puberty. When I turned 18 and was living here in the U.S. I heard about it but didn’t know what it meant. I was confused about my identity and I did notice a difference about myself compared to other guys. I had a best friend in high school who was an exchange student from Spain. When he left and went back home, I was devastated. I was heart broken and didn’t understand why. Then at some point I saw a movie about gay men and that’s when I realized what was going on with me. Eventually I told that boy when I went to Spain. He was surprised. He was nice about it and very supportive. He was straight and so nothing happened between us.
I said “why me?” But I was also relieved because it was an answer to what was happening to me. Still, it was also a blow to my self esteem. I didn’t know what to do, where to go, who to talk to and felt very helpless. I also felt very vulnerable. I became very introverted from having a lot of friends. I pulled back and didn’t socialize much. My dad knew something was wrong since the time he saw me with my best friend and then knew something was up from my reaction when he left. It was a very difficult period for me. I lost a friend and also discovered I was gay.
Family: I did it gradually. I was in college. I actually didn’t volunteer any information. My mother suspected it already. I believe she was eaves dropping one time and heard me talk to a guy. After that she confronted me and I told her. She cried so much. But I always thought my dad had a feeling. That day he came down the stairs and saw my mother crying and me just standing there. I think he just knew and didn’t say much about it. I told my sister about it two or three years later. She cried too. But said she had a feeling.
Friends: I didn’t have too many friends to start with. I had just a couple of close friends, but a lot of cousins. No I didn’t tell them. I tried making gay friends on the side and hung out with Iranians less. I knew this very liberal Persian guy on campus and thought he was safe, so I told him. But he turned to me and said, “But you are Persian, you can’t be gay.” So then I knew it was no use telling other Iranians. I started coming out to my Persian female friends first and they were very accepting. We even became closer because of it. They felt safe with me and so started telling me all their secrets. I had three or four close female friends and it was the same with all of them. This is true with other gay men too. It’s almost a given, they all come out with female friends first because the women are so accepting. They even go to the prom with each other, and they hang out so the families won’t suspect anything.
Work: I wasn’t out with anyone at my work initially. First it was family, then friends then co-workers and it was a lesbian American co-worker and then my boss. My boss was OK and very supportive. I worked in a video store, people would just chit chat. They asked me about girl friends. I was so sick of lying and finally when they asked me again I just told the truth. I didn’t want to live a life of lies anymore.
I became sad, I felt like I let them down. I was the oldest child, the favorite child, the first grandchild. Academically I was very successful. But then I lost my special place with my family. I lost everything. They didn’t trust me anymore. But it was relief too. Yet, I felt a great deal of sadness and anger. I expected them to be more supporting but they weren’t. Hiding and lying was horrible. Ultimately I always wanted to tell them I just didn’t know how to tell them. First, they were sad. Then they denied it. My mom said, “You can’t be, I remember you as a kid kissing girls.” My dad said it was a phase, and that he went through similar things with his brother but he grew out of it. Then he got angry because I didn’t let it go and for the next 10 years he mistreated me. I was very angry at my dad. I know my anger was due to the fact that my dad had rejected me. But when they found out, they first took away my pager, then grounded me and said it is because of bad friends and bad influence. They thought it was a phase and that it would pass. They said, “You’ve never been with a girl how do you know you are gay.” But I had read in books about all the things parents say when they find out and so I was prepared for their resistance. Besides, I knew for sure I was gay so I was just angry at them for not believing me.
Yes. Three months. It’s not a relationship just dating.
He is also Persian. I met my first boyfriend at UCSB. We met online and realized that we were going to the same school. He was also Persian and we dated for five years. After college we moved to L.A. to have a life together, away from the family. That was in 2001. Then three months later that ended. Then I met a Persian Armenian guy and we went out for two years. Then another Persian guy and we dated for five months. Then came another Persian guy and we dated for two years. I meet these guys online. I was always involved with the Persian community, the Persian T.V. and also joined Homan (Iranian GLTB organization in Los Angeles). There are more Persian gays in L.A. it’s easy to get lost here but in San Diego you stand out more. I actively choose to be with Iranians because I like the comfort. I’m at my best around Iranians. I love speaking Farsi, I love Persian music. I just love the Persian culture. If I had a choice I would be submersed in everything Iranian. I can’t relate to blond people. I feel like an outsider. I’m very uncomfortable about being around white gay men but very comfortable with other ethnic minorities. White gay men don’t understand why we (Persians) do certain things. They don’t understand our relationship with our families. They say screw the family if they don’t understand your gayness. But for me family is very important and I couldn’t relate to them. Also, I don’t like to sleep around and be promiscuous. I don’t like the way they act with they come out. I don’t relate to the hard core gay life style of white Americans. I’m not like that. Also white gays are very much into pop culture. For example, you have to know every thing about Madonna and Brittney spears. I didn’t grow up with all that so it makes me uncomfortable. Gay Iranian men are also 99% crazy about Persian pop music. They are into who is who and what’s going on in the entertainment field. I guess it’s better if I break it down for you. There are three groups of Iranian gays: The pre-revolution generation. These guys are now in their forties and fifties and are very Persian. They speak, read, write in Persian and are not that assimilated into the American community. Then there is the in between generation (my generation). We have a little bit of both cultures inside of us. We came to the U.S. in our teens and identify as both Persian and American. Then there is the post- revolution generation. They are totally American. Only choose to speak in English and don’t identify with their Iranian background at all. None of these generations mingle with each other. There is a huge generation gap among all of us. We all know each other through Homan but don’t mingle except once a year when there is this huge party. Both lesbians and gays attend this gathering. The Persian lesbians are not at all visible. They are more into themselves.
Yes, I have after I came out. I had two random experiences with women. The first one was great, the second one I was out of duty and that was not a good experience. I’m open to both sexes but my preference is to be with a man. The top or the active gay male is generally open to both sexes but the more passive gay male only chooses to be with men. In fact, women disgust them.
Now they do. At first it was a secret.
It is definitely not a choice. It is not learned. You are born with it.
If yes, what did you do around it? Yes, I had it strongly. I still have it to an extent. The whole idea of not coming across as effeminate, I make it a point, almost go out of my way to let people know that I’m the top/ active male. I don’t like to look like a typical gay man, wear tight clothes, etc. I even listen to people’s voices and try to detect gayness in their voice and try to make my own voice deeper.
I feel very comfortable. I’m very lucky because I have a supportive family now. They support me and my partner. Also my sister made sure the person she marries is totally OK with me.
Growing up in Iran, religion was forced on us so I don’t practice Islam and I don’t really like Jews. But I grew up spiritual. I believe in doing good deeds. What my grandparents and teachers taught me I practice today. I believe in honesty, being a good person, not cheating or stealing. These are qualities that I learned from my upbringing. What gives me strength to be open about my being gay is having come out. It freed me and gave me the strength and let me know that I can reach any goal in life. I’m still not fully at my highest potential but I’m getting there. Also not living the lie is what gives me strength.
I would have been a totally different person if I lived in Iran. But I can’t say how different. May be I would not be as educated about being gay. May be I wouldn’t have as healthy a lifestyle, or be as successful at work, or be as mentally healthy. I couldn’t be sure. But I believe in Iran I would always fear being found out. So I’d probably still be lying.
The Family
- Are there any gay individuals in your family that you know of?
- What was your up bringing like?
- Who did you grow up with?
- What was your relationship life with your mother/ father growing up?
- Are you openly out as a gay man with your extended family?
- Does your family get to see the person/ people you date? If no, why not? If yes, what do they say?
- Do you think you’ll ever get married?
- Have you faced any discrimination from your immediate and extended family? If yes, how?
- Did your family feel shame about you and did they try to hide the fact that they have a gay son? If so, explain how?
- Is there any sexual abuse in your background?
- Did you hear any negative comments about gays as you were growing up?
- Anything else you want to say about your family?
Not that I know of. There is a rumor about a great aunt from my dad’s side who had a very close girlfriend. She was even married for a short time and then she left her husband. But no one talks about her. She is the big secret of the family.
Pretty good. Nothing major to talk about. Caring family, friends, close knit family.
Mom, dad, sister. Both sets of grandparents were also close to us. I only had an uncle in Iran everyone else was living in the U.S. At 15 when I came to the U.S. we were all united. When I came here I lived with my paternal grandparents until my parents came from Iran.
Very close to mom, dad was around but not very involved. My dad was pretty passive. Mom and dad were very close. They are the only couple whose marriage survived. They argued once in a while but nothing out of the ordinary or too weird.
No I’m not out with them. But just recently told one of my cousins. I have one male cousin on dad’s side. I kind of told him two years ago. He knows but never talks about it. He respects me and knows I don’t want to talk about it so he doesn’t say or ask much. I also wrote an email to a female cousin and insinuated I had a boyfriend. So she knows and she accepts it. My grandparents are not very traditional, they are actually pretty liberal. Everyone gave up asking me about girlfriends, but my Jewish grandmother every now and then asks when am I going to date a girl? I lie to her. I tell her what she wants to hear. I talk about my relationships but say ‘she” instead of he and she is happy.
My dad is not interested in this part of my life. When he doesn’t like something he just avoids it. For two years he didn’t talk to me, now we talk but he doesn’t ask and I don’t tell him about my relationships. My mom invites my boy friends and is very nice, my dad is cordial but aloof. My mom comes over and has lunch with us. She has been the most involved.
I don’t know about a traditional ceremony. But every person I pick is to have a long term relationship with. I love kids. I would love to have my own, if not, I will adopt.
Sure, even to this day. Absolutely! My mom would call and talk for hours but she’d never ask about my partner. She acted like they didn’t exist. One of the guys I dated was very effeminate and mom was concerned about keeping face in the community. She was afraid people would see me with him in public. She didn’t come and visit during the whole time I was with him but would go to Chicago to visit my sister several times a year. She would encourage me to leave Arash because of who he was. He was pretty flamboyant and she did not like that at all.
Absolutely! My mother was really concerned and wanted to hide it. She would say “What if people find out?” I saw her age in front me. To her it was defeat. My mom blamed herself for me leaving Iran alone. She believed that’s what hurt me. She blamed herself for being strong and for wearing the pants in the family, she thought that was the wrong role model for me, or that she should have sent me to sleep with a prostitute when I was coming of age but because she didn’t, she thought that’s why I may have turned gay. When I was going through puberty, I gave my dad a backrub and it was kind of sensual and he didn’t resist it. I think he feels shame about that and thinks that maybe that caused me to become gay.
When I was six I would go to my cousin’s house after school so they would baby-sit me. My cousin’s daughter was 12. For over a year she would take me to her room undress in front me and have me touch her. She was fully developed. I didn’t like it. She would force me to sleep next to her and touch her. I really didn’t like that.
Does your family now tell others that they have a gay son? My mom eventually told her sister. That’s the only person she ever told. She says she was dying and just needed to talk to someone. Her sister, my aunt, also tried to convince me and said I should get married just to fit in. Not for love just for show. This happened a year ago.
No, in Iran the whole concepts didn’t exist. People would joke about it, but I hadn’t seen nor heard of gays. So I thought they were comic characters. In the U.S. I heard about it and knew sort of what it was but I never thought that it was me.
Yes, I had a grandfather who raised me. He was more of father figure to me. I spent a lot time with him. I owe a lot of who I am to him. He doesn’t know about me but he is a smart person and always talked about how he loved his gay neighbors in S.F. I love him very much and he is more like a father. I call him Baba dotta and everyone else picked that name up and calls him this name. [Baba dotta literally translated to English means “father two”, or second dad].
The Community
- Do you tell people you meet both Iranians and non-Iranians about your sexual orientation?
- What are some of the difficulties/ challenges you faced from the Iranian community as a gay individual? How about the white American community?
- Who is your community? Where do you hang out and with whom, just other gays or heterosexuals too?
- Did you ever go back to Iran? If not, do you want to? Why or why not?
- Do you feel that it is any different coming out as a gay Iranian or a white American?
- Do you feel that the gay Iranian is a large and active community? If yes, how so?
- Are you pretty politically active member of the gay community here in L.A.? If no, what stops you?
- Do you feel that HIV/AIDS is as a big of a concern for Iranian gays?
- Have you ever experienced discrimination from the white American community? If yes, how?
- Do you know of any gay marriages between Iranian men or women?
- Do you have any children? If no, do you want any? How would you go about having them?
- What are some of the major differences between white gays and Iranian gays?
Only if I know them well and consider them safe. For the most part, it is a lot easier to tell those who are not Iranian, because I really don’t care what they think of me. With Iranians, I only tell those who are close to me or will play a role in my life.
Since I haven’t told too many people, personally I have never been hurt by them. However, we do receive hate e-mails from fellow Iranians at HOMAN when we advertise our events. For the most part the ex-patriotic community is very non-aggressive about this issue. I recall an incident when I went to Club Tehran on Ventura with some friends about 5 years ago and as Vigen (famous Iranian singer) sang a love song. Me and another guy friend started dancing a slow song together on the dance floor and no one really made any remarks… but you could see the shock on their faces. On another occasion we called KIRN (the local Iranian radio station) to advertise for our seminar in UCLA and the lady who answered the phone said “we are allowed to reject any advertisement that has to do with drugs, alcohol or issues that are bad for the community… so I don’t know if they will allow us to advertise this…but some one apparently told her she was subjecting her company to a lawsuit, so she immediately called back and agreed to air the advertisement.
My community is the Iranian gay friends in their mid 20s to early 40s that I have become friends with over the years. I also spend a lot of time with some girl friends who are super supportive of gay men. (These girls by the way are referred to as “fag hags” or “fruit flies” by the gay community and most gay men have at least one close fag hag. It’s a terrible term, but one that is commonly used. These are mostly straight girls who prefer to hang out with gay men vs. straight girl friends and end up totally taking part in the activities of the gay community. The Iranian community has a fair share of these girls who find the gay community very accepting of their sexual frustrations). I am also VERY close to the gay Armenian community here in LA. I’d say 50% of my friends come from the Iranian Armenian community and a good 25% are just pure Armenians from Armenia. Culturally we are very close and they have a very large and supportive community that is quite open to the Iranians as well.
I went back to Iran in 2000. It was a very strange and profound experience. As I said before I left Iran against my own will. My parents decided to send me out of the country before the draft age of 15. So I never had closure and for many years rejected the US and its people as something that was forced on me. If anyone ever asked me where I was from, I wouldn’t say San Diego, but rather Tehran, and I always identified with being an Iranian. In 2000, I started hearing about all the changes that Khatami had brought to Iran and how relaxed things were over there. So I applied for my Iranian Passport and along with my boyfriend of 5 years who was also Iranian traveled to Iran…both to see our families and the country we had left many years ago. It was the most fantastic trip of my life… and one that allowed me to finally close that chapter of my life and accept the US as my home and Iran as my homeland. It was a very peaceful experience and one that put my mind at ease. I went and visited all the places that reminded me of my childhood and noticed how none of it really exists anymore. The streets seemed narrower, the houses smaller, and the people were a lot different than how I remembered them. It was an amazing experience and one that I recommend for everyone who asks me whether they should visit or not. I should also mention that I met the Iranian gay community over there which is fully active and have their own underground parties, get-togethers and hang out places. I made many friends during the 1 month that I was there and kept in contact with some of them for many years after. It was incredible how the two communities had in common. Even though they were not exposed to the western gay lifestyle, but their lives were not all that different from ours. The only difference was how to them being gay was something purely sexual, where as with those of us who live here it is more of a lifestyle.
It is more difficult to be Iranian and gay. If you are an Iranian who lives in Iran, then you have the country laws to worry about (they can execute you if they catch you having sex with another man) and there are very few resources or places to help the gay and lesbian community. Internet was an outlet, but most of the educational sites have been filtered recently. Iranian officials try to convince all homosexuals to go through sexual reassignment operations and to become a member of the opposite sex which to me is just a crime. For those of us who live here in the U.S., it’s a bit easier, but since the community is smaller, our families suffer more. They constantly have to worry about who in the small community will find out and how they are going to react to it. I know many Iranian Jewish gay friends whose parents are worried about the smaller Jewish community finding out, and how that could jeopardize the future of the siblings in the family (daughters would not be able to find the proper husband, etc).
White Americans don’t have the same problems, but they have others. You hear more about them being completely rejected by their families. Iranian families never completely reject you. They just make your life difficult and try to keep you closeted (I’m generalizing of course…there are some who are quite supportive).
It is as large as any other minority Middle Eastern gay community that exists here in LA. We’ve worked hard to keep it alive, since Iranians as a whole don’t have much experience when it comes to working as a group. Armenians are definitely more successful at this. The community is only active when it comes to “fun” events. We also had a wonderful turnout for our 1st seminar on homosexuality in the Iranian society which was held in UCLA 3 yrs ago. One of the only events where we had many lesbians attended alongside with gays.
I am part of HOMAN and also work with a whole bunch of other minority gay groups. My main reason to do it is to create a community. It is such a great feeling to know there are others out there like you. When I first found out about myself I thought I was the only one. It was such a great feeling to know there are many others like me, and that’s why I try to keep HOMAN alive. I also try to help many gay Iranians who are applying for asylum to the US or other countries. It’s quite fulfilling to know I can do something to help others who have been hurt as a result of being gay.
Many Iranian gay men think that our community is not prone to it; but I personally know many gay Iranians who are HIV positive and a couple who have died of AIDS. I have also been witness to how some of the gay Iranians who just arrived from Iran got caught in the whole gay lifestyle of fun, drugs and sex and are now HIV positive.
No, for the most part they are very accepting of it. Of course LA is a unique when it comes to this. San Diego was a bit more difficult, but I have never personally experienced discrimination from the white community.
I know of an Iranian gay couple who got married about 4 years ago. They have been together for around 12 years. I also know two Iranian lesbian couples who were married in San Francisco when the mayor decided to issue marriage licenses a year ago.
I don’t have any, but would love to be a father some day. I have not decided whether it is going to become a reality yet as I am concerned about prejudice against those kids. I’m also curious to know whether these children will be mentally healthy. The truth is, I am a bit skeptical. The gay community as I know it, is not a good community in which to raise one’s children and for me to become a father, I have to leave this community behind. That is difficult since most of my friends belong to this community.
Gay Iranians grew up with Iranian values, and so the majority of those who were raised in Iran believe in long term relationships. The American gays are definitely more into their bodies and pay a lot more attention to their physical fitness.
The Message
- If you had a message for the Iranian community, what would it be?
- If you had a message for the white American community what would it be?
- If you had a message for other gay Iranian American young adults what would it be?
Everyone has a skeleton in their closet, we’ll be a much healthier community if we accept each-other’s individuality and uniqueness.
I have very little contact with them and so to be perfectly honest, I don’t have anything to say to them!
Asking parents to be supportive will be quite a challenge, but one well worth fighting. At the end of the day, those of us who have a good relationship with our parents are a lot happier and healthier that those who decided “I’ll just do this by myself”.
References
Bradford, J., Ryan, C. & Rothblum, E. D. (1994). National lesbian health care survey: Implications for mental health. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 62, 228-242.
Iranian Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Organization. (July 19, 2006). Protecting the right of gays in Iran. Retrieved from http://www.homanla.org/
Morris, J. (1997). Lesbian coming out as a multidimensional process. Journal of Homosexuality. 33(2), 1-21.